tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN October 21, 2012 1:00pm-2:00pm EDT
our viewers in the united states. this is gps the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we have a great show for you today. first up, kofi annan. the former secretary-general of the united nations and more recently the u.n. peace envoy to syria. i'll ask him if there's any end in sight for that nation's in sight for that nation's in sight for that nation's in sight for that nation's brutal civil war. and then the u.s. isn't the only major power picking a president for the next few weeks. i'll talk to "the new yorker's" beijing reporter evan osnos about the political tumult in china ahead of the upcoming anointment. also i'll talk to the education innovator sal khan, the founder of khan academy about how best to teach our kids. and what does a company with almost 700 planes and tens of thousands of trucks worry about?
fuel. i'll sit down with fedex ceo fred smith to talk about the future of energy. that crucial subject, the future of energy, is also at the heart of our latest gps special, which airs tonight at 8:00 and 11:00 p.m. eastern and pacific. in "global lessons: the roadmap for powering america" will take you around the world to bring you ideas about energy back home. but first here's my take. the second presidential debate has been studied and analyzed mostly as a prize fight. who punched hard, who missed a swing. that's fine. but there was a substantive aspect to the debate as well. president obama actually showed up this time, and he was engaged and articulate, as was governor romney. as a result, we got a sense of the issues, and there is an important and honorable difference between these two candidates. the central question in the selection is what will grow the american economy? governor romney's basic answer is lower taxes and a more streamlined tax code and fewer regulations. president obama's answer to the
same question would be investments in education, infrastructure, science and technology, as well as support for important sectors like energy and advanced manufacturing. both arguments have merits to them. so the question is which is our most urgent problem now. well, the united states is the seventh most competitive economy in the world, according to the world economic forum. it's dropped a bit over the last four years. overall, however, whether compared with our own past of, say, 30 years ago when airlines, banks, and telecommunications were tightly controlled by government rules or compared with other countries, the united states remains a pretty business-friendly place. the u.s. economy boomed in the 1950s with tax rates that were much higher than today, and germany, the country that has come out of the current crisis best is not exactly a model for low taxes and low regulation. as i've often pointed out america is worse off than it was 30 years ago in infrastructure,
education, and research. the country spends much less than it did on infrastructure, and by 2009, federal funding for research and development was half the share of gdp that it was in 1960. the result is we're falling behind and fast. a decade ago the world economic forum ranked u.s. infrastructure fifth in the world. in the latest report, we were 25th. the u.s. spends only 2.4% of gpd on infrastructure the congressional budget office noted in 2010. whereas, europe spends 5% and china, 9%. in the 1970s, america led the world in the number of college graduates. as of 2009, we were 14th among the country's tract by the oedc. reversing that decline will cost money. in other words, the great shift in the u.s. economy over the past 30 years has not been a dramatic increase in taxes and regulation, but rather a decline in investment in human and physical capital.
now, we should really push on both fronts a better tax and regulatory system and more investments, but on the substance obama is right to emphasize investments. you may still think he's not a good president, but, by the way, as governor romney as he pivots to the center now talks about spending on retraining and educating and boosting manufacturing exports. so let's hope whoever wins gets the investments it sorely needs. let's get started. ♪ joining me now, kofi annan, the former u.n. secretary-general, the former special envoy to syria, and the author of a terrific new book, "interventions: a life in war and peace." welcome, kofi. >> i'm happy to be here. >> this is really a wonderful book, and in a sense, we could talk about so many things, but given that -- you know, one of the things you talk about is now at the center of the news.
>> yes. >> i have to ask you. ultimately you wrote a "financial times" article in which you said the major powers have to come together if syria's going to be solved. do you think that the united states needs to change its attitude in some way to make this work? >> i think the united states and russia have to find a way of working together, coming together, analyzing the situation, and deciding on the way forward, to protect the common interests that everyone has in the region. in the past, we've had -- there's been too much finger-pointing. divisions are normal. you will have divisions in every human endeavor. the challenge is to have the leadership, to brace those differences and come up with an approach that will solve the problem, and this is where i think u.s. and russia will have
to come together and work on the syrian problem. >> do you think military intervention could work here? >> i'm dead certain it will not work. it will make the situation much worse. >> why? >> first of all, libya -- people refer to libya as an example. syria is not libya. syria is located in one of the most volatile regions of the world. syria is next to iraq, next to lebanon where we have major problems, and in a region where you have also some jihadist elements and as we know they have been crossing in to syria. because of the nature of the syrian society, which is a mosaic. they talk about syria and suni alone, you have them, they are the vast majority but you also have the christians, the troops,
the syrians, the turks. where do they turn to? they may neither be with the government nor the rebels. >> but you know people look at the violence and they say -- the economist magazine this week has come out in favor of intervention, but they're not clear what that means. they say, well, we should do something. that isn't the feeling of a lot of people. >> that's a feeling of lots of people and a certain group from the beginning. i mean that is a group that propagated the idea. i've never heard of anything of the sort. it is a piece of unmitigating nonsense, in effect saying don't even try to resolve it peacefully. don't give the syrians hope. give weapons and let's kill each other. >> you know who said that. in the vice-presidential debate paul ryan named you and said the administration put their faith
in kofi annan and that was the problem. >> no. and he was dead wrong. he was dead wrong. honestly this is one of the first situations where i've seen people claim that an attempt to immediate complicates and allows more killing to go on. and in almost every situation, we try to find a peaceful solution. if it works, well and good. you save people. now we have syrians living through incredible traumas, and they're the ones we should be crying for. not making statements of don't attempt to resolve it peacefully. if they were to go in with a military intervention -- and by the way, i don't sense any urgency of countries wanting to rush in and intervene. yes, some are sending in weapons but that's quite different from the kind of intervention.
but sometimes by making these statements and raising the hope of the people that calvary is on the horizon, you complicate the situation and encourage the fighting and killing to go on. and if it's not going to come, why should you look at all of the solutions. >> one of the criticisms often made is there was faith placed in the russians, that the russians had special influence with assad and they were never going to give in because they regarded assad as a crucial ally. you met with putin. >> yes, i did. >> and you asked frank questions of him. >> yes. i had a frank discussion with frank and his team. they made it clear. they realized assad will have to go, but how and when. what they do not want is a chaotic breakdown.
when assad leaves, then what? the west keeps saying assad must go, and the louder they shout it, the deeper he digs in. and then they go to them. in geneva when all the foreign of the permanent five met with all the foreign ministers from the middle east we all agreed the solution is a political settlement, including the russians and the chinese. and they accepted that the political settlement would mete mean an new interim government with full executive powers. >> then what happened? >> then i had one day came to new york but when they came to new york they met with the council
and the rest on chapter 7. the chinese, the americans, the russians told us it could not september and the resolution got vetoed and they dropped the substance. the substance which i'm confident they will have to go back to, or something similar to the geneva solution is of the that debate which you think is a sense of political solution. >> essentially. the sense that my side will win and the other side will accept and eventually be, they make the law is not going to happen in this environment. this is why everyone has to realize there's no military solution and we need to focus on the political settlement. nobody has been able to convince me that either one side or the other could bring peace to
syria. >> we have so many other things to talk about. there's just so many things, but this is a great pleasure. kofi annan. >> thank of you. nice to be here. what to do about syria is sure to be debated by president obama and mitt romney on monday night. don't miss it. up next, the other major political event of the next few weeks, china's leadership change. what will that mean for the rest of the world? [ male announcer ] citi turns 200 this year. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all, we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. so why should our anniversary matter to you? because for 200 years, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement.
understandably fixated on november 6, election day. but halfway around the world there's another regime change in the offering. november 8 is the day china begins its 18th national congress during which its next set of leaders will be announced. what does it mean for the world's second largest economy and what does it mean for u.s./china relations? i have a great chronicler of china with me today, evan osnos, "the new yorker's" correspondent in beijing. welcome, evan. >> glad to be here. >> so does this feel like a big transition in china? just what is the mood? >> this is an extraordinary moment. i mean i've been there now for seven years, and i've never felt the mood in beijing the way it is now. this is a moment actually of acute anxiety for the leadership and also for regular people. it's anxious for the leadership because they realize the people they've put in now are going to be confronting a range of issues that, frankly, are more difficult than anything they've faced over the last several years. for the people on the street the anxiety is that they frankly don't know very much about the people who are going to be running they're country.
what they know is the following. they know it is a group of men. most certainly men. it will be a committee of seven. china doesn't have a single leader. it has a first among equals as the president, and his name will probably be xi jinping most certainly. among that group, they're highly educated. they have degrees in sociology, law, economics. they're all educated within china. they have some exposure abroad. most importantly perhaps they've all succeeded within the system. they're men who have thrived within the communist party and they're going to do what they can to maintain the status quo and do as little reform, frankly, as they can get away. >> let's talk about the strength. there were three planks to that. the first was economic reform. market economics but mainly an aggressively export-driven model a version of south korea, singapore or japan.
you talk about substantial rethinking of the model. >> he bet on demographics. he knew that china had a population of under employed people. could put them to work in factories and that would be the life blood of the economy. for 30 years they've had 10% growth. they brought 500 million people out of poverty. what they've also done in the last ten years is they've exhausted the value. partly it is demographics. frankly they are running out of young people, the population that would go to the factories. also, that model of creating these enormous, in many cases state-owned intersurprises and bringing people from the countryside to work for them, in the end it meant you have a large gap between rich and poor.
some people winning extraordinarily well in the system and then people whose income was not rising as fast. what you have seen is the gap between rich and poor is larger than any point i have since the revolution, larger than the united states. this has been an enormous sense of tension and something they realize they need to change. let's talk about the political track. this was meant to be a merit-based, and what we are realizing over the last year or two is there is intense politics and fighting. it made you realize the ambitions of people trying to get on the standing committee. the second is the degree to which there is a huge persuasive and vast corruption of the kind you think of in india and indonesia but china has it too. it is just well wid rid hidden. >> the corruption in china is on a scale like nothing we have ever seen. the amount of money is on a scale we have never seen. the question is how much does it
matter? can a country go through extraordinary corruption and come out stronger? it has happened in history. japan was corrupt, korea, in fact the united states in the late 19th century was extraordinarily corrupt. what those three examples had, however, are rule of law, independent courts a free media and the ability for the voter to say let's throw the bums out and china rec recognizes it has a corruption problem but doesn't have the institutional strength to correct it. that's one problem. the other problem is that politically they are actually facing a lot of pressure from their own population, even though kmn doesn't have one man, one vote it has a vibrant internet on which people complain about all kinds of subjects than exerts a force on the government. if you go around the country there is enormous frustration,
people feel it is not just good enough to give me something to eat. i want more. it is up to the new generation of leadership to not just fulfill the most basic responsibilities of government but to satisfy the growing expect ations of their people. >> and them third part of deng's strategy was to be pro america. what i'm struck by as you talk to average chinese people, businessman, certainly officials and they all believe that china and the united states are inevitably going to have confrontation and the united states has detained to contain china. >> there is an unfortunate pattern if you go back in history that an existing super power is rarely comfortable with the rise of a new super power and china is acutely aware of that and recently we had protests in beijing which were against japan involving an issue over islands in the south china
sea, a territorial dispute. beneath the issue it was about competition between china and the united states and everybody i talked to in the protests said to me ultimately we think the competition will be between the united states and china about sup pres premcy in the world. when the economy slows down as a it is now, china's people allow their people to rally around the flag. it is one thing that drives people together. they have great pride in the chinese nation. what we need to be prepared for over the next couple of years is the chinese people will probably express their anger against the united states and in some cases it will be actually they arening a at the united states or in other because it is the form of communication you are allowed. you are allowed to complain about the united states but what you are really complaining about is your own governor. >> do you think chinese have a preference between obama and romney. >> i think they have prized
themselves by how much they don't like mitt romney. they thought he was this man. they said she harvard educated, organized an olympics which is something they understand and they discovered he had strong rhetoric on china and maybe happier with the status quo. >> thank you. >> i have the right of education, i have the right to play. i have the right to sing. i have the right to go to market. i have a right to speak. to have, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty. here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners. [ male announcer ] fedex office. ♪
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world" segment. earlier this month the pakistani taliban opened fire on a school bus. two girls were shot. at first it seemed a familiar story. the taliban, after all, has bombed hundreds of schools, especially for girls. here's what's new. mass protests ensued against the taliban and in favor of women. that's startling and refreshing in pakistan. this past week thousands of
demonstrators thronged to the streets to protest the taliban's brutality to women. they are rallying around one person, 14-year-old malala yousefzai. she was not an accidental target. the taliban directly sought her out and shot her in the head. they not only wanted to kill her but what she stood for. >> the koran didn't say that girls are not allowed to go to school. >> malala exposed the lie of islamic extremists and they were willing to kill her for it. but she's survived and so has her argument. her courage in taking on the taliban has inspired moderate pakistanis. we've been waiting for this kind of moment for a while. what will it take for moderate pakistanis to unite against extremism?
for years now, fundamentalist groups have tried to turn pakistan in to bur rocky. cy /* -- bureaucracy. they've scared girls from going to school, suppressed women, but where was the pushback just last year when the governor spoke out he was gunned down. outside the court his killer was greeted with rose petals. where was the public outcry? plaps the last time we saw sustained public anger against the taliban was three years ago, when a video of a woman being flogged circulated on the internet and on pakistani tv. that moment led to mass support from military action against the taliban. so perhaps the tide is turning once again. pakistan is often blamed the west for their problems, protesting against america, against drone strikes, or even against you tube. but the real enemy lies within.
it took a 14-year-old girl to bring that to people's attention. pakistan's youth literacy rate is only 71%. take it as a whole and it rises to 90%. there are only 79 pakistani schoolgirls for every 100 schoolboys. but you don't need a world bank database to spot these trends. ask any schoolgirl in pakistan. women are often seen as the stealth reformers of islam. as they press for their rights, it will force a more liberal and flexible interpretation of the religion. and why politicians have been hesitant, a 14-year-old girl has led the charge. here's wishing her a complete recovery so she can get back in
the fight for her country and her religion. we'll be right back. up next, the ceo of fedex talking about america's energy future. don't miss it. i'm martin savidge cnn center in atlanta. we want to bring you up to speed on a development taking place in suburban milwaukee. there are reports of a shooting in a shopping center. this is in brookfield, wisconsin, a suburb of milwaukee. there are said to be, according to witnesses, multiple victims. the shooting supposedly took place at a spa across the street from the brookfield square mall. so it's, as you can see, there is a heavy confluence there of emergency vehicles, firefighters. we're told there is a s.w.a.t. presence on the scene. it appears this is an active shooter investigation going on
as would be described and that a search is underway to find the shooter again. very little is known about this number of victims and we will caution and say we do not know how many or their conditions. i want to bring in me lis da with the schroeder hospital in the milwaukee area. melissa, if you would, just tell us what you know. >> sure. right now i can confirm we have had four victims transported to our hospital. they are currently all being evaluated but all of their injuries seem to be noncritical. we are expecting potentially three more victims to be coming to the hospital. >> they were transported by ambulance, i believe? >> as far as i know, yes. >> that are they victims of gunshots. >> unfortunately i can't confirm that. i i don't have that bit of information yet. >> i would imagine you are on beefed up alert that you have perhaps had to call in staff. where do things stand as far as the emergency for your particular medical hospital?
>> i'm sorry. i can't hear you. >> okay. are you under an emergency footing at the hospital there? >> oh, certainly, yes. we have the resources and personnel in place to take care of the situation and manage it appropriately. >> when did this happen? >> pardon? >> when did this happen? >> i don't have that information. i don't know. >> as far as the treatment, these people are all being handled in your er right now? >> that's correct. >> are you bringing in additional staff. >> at this time i'm not aware we are needing to bring in additional staff. >> thank you very much. we will move on and be back to you when we can. let's listen to our affiliate wisn to hear their reporting. >> was immediately put in the back of a squad car, was raced a short distance to the mcdonald a's next door which is hard to see where we are.
we will continue to show you the emergency vehicles here. we are told emergency personnel started to work on her medically in the back of the squad car. we know of these those two. additionally we are told there were people. one witness described it as 10 to 15 who came running out of the building surrounded by police, perhaps other law enforcement official officials and were taken to the, to a building nearby. just because it's not entirely secure scene a i don't want to describe specifically where they were taken, but we willty say they were taken to a nearby building. what remains at this point to be seen and determined is what is taking place inside the building right now. what is taking place inside of that spa. we have new information, i understand, coming in to our newsroom. for that i will go back to you. >> we have new information according to the hospital they have treated four patients, all noncritical with three more on the way. conditions are not known. again, the hospital is telling
us that four patients have been treated, nonkrit with three more on the way. now back up to chopper 12. >> reporter: we are looking down at the emergency area where the emergency crews was telling you about it. they added a few more ambulances to the line waiting to take injured parties away. so far, we haven't seen any depart. we have only seen them reshift and move to a let's get ready shoed mode. they have lined up instead of being parked two by two next to each other. flight for life suspect sitting there. they shut their ingen down and have not put the passenger on board. the stretcher is empty. looks like they are waiting for the passenger as well. now, what we can do is widen out and show you the area where they are sitting is in the mall parking lot. they are sitting between the u.s. bank and the brookfield square fall. they have closed off an area there. the bank is shielding all of the
emergency personnel from the active scene, which is across the street. we have widening out so we don't show tactical positions. they have dozens of tactical officers, a couple of armored vehicle and s.w.a.t. trucks in the area there. they are still searching the area around the spa. the spa is in the center of the frame. it is the building in the center of the frame. you can see they have brookfield road, the road shut down across from brookfield square in both directions. that's from the entrance of the mall that is north of 95 to bluemont in both direction thes and some people at the country club across the way, as well. it is adjacent to the spa as well as a couple hundred vehicles with shoppers at the mall itself. you can see there's a bit of a headache coming through the area on the roadways. they have delays coming off the freeway ramps and on to moreland road and in the opposite
direction, folks heading along the mall drive that ghost goes along the west side of the building that's where they are detouring traffic to get around the scene itself, as you can see here. the road, is not too bad at this point but it is shut down in moreland in both direction and may be closing down sections of bluemont as well. they have a couple of vehicles and they have the officers barrels out. we never show a live tactical positions so they can stay safe. never know if they have a tv on in the mall. the perpetrator could be using that to gain knowledge where the tactical officers are set is. our policy here at wisn is never show their positions. we only show the staging areas and that's what we will stick to as we monitor the situation. back to you. >> thank you. if you are joining us we are following a shooting outside of a spa in a suburb near milwaukee. >> we are in the parking lot of
the brookfield square mall. there is a sea of ambulances continuing to descend. one vehicle is joining the fleet. let's look at the cluster of ambulances over there. this right now, all indications are is an active scene at the moment. as such, there are police officers surrounding the area where this shooting is believed to have taken place. right now, more and more fire vehicles and ambulance vehicles, medical personnel are responding to a section of the parking lot of brookfield square mall. if you are joining us just now, we will tell you what we know at the point is that three -- excuse me, four people were taken. we have confirmed to the hospital with what are described by officials at noncritical injuries. so far, again, to repeat that, four people have been taken with what are described noncritical injuries. we're told three others are on the way. they are clearly here ready for
more victims if there are any. if they have reason to believe there are any given the amount that we existed moments ago. you are looking at the azana spa and that where the shooting took place. where it took place inside or outside in a parking lot at this point remains to be seen. we are getting varying reports on that from the witnesses who came to the area moments after the shooting took place. what we are watching right now, let's get off of that for a moment. let's get off of. >> a lot of police running in the building right now. >> >>. >> let's get off of that shot right now. i don't want to relay a live image of what is taking place. can we get off of that? toss it back to you. >> thank you very much. >> as you can see something was going on. we cannot show that. that is against our policy. there has been a mass shooting near the azana spa. whether it took place inside or outside we have not confirmed. we know that the hospital has confirmed that four patients had been treated with non-critical
injuries and three more on the way. this is all happening near azana spa. the sheriffs department said it is still an active scene. it is not secure. local area hospitals have been put on notice. we have chopper 12 in the area. we have more on the ground. but we cannot show what is going on the ground. we have a mass shooting that happened near the brookfield square mall at azana spa. they heard people screaming and crying according to witnesses. one said he witnessed two people come out with gunshot wounds treated immediately and taken to the hospital. there are many emergency response vehicles near and around brookfield square mall. we have learned that moreland road has been closed down. the mall has been lockeddown. and everybody in the area is obviously responding to this. i think we have a live picture of news chopper 12. we might be sending it back to matt as we speak.
>> we are watching the area across the street. i did get a chance -- we were talking to aib there and they are active with the tactical officers a the spa itself. they have the area surrounded. they have guns drawn and their full tactical gear on at this point. i can tell you that for sure. the emergency personnel are waiting, waiting for victims to be taken from the spa itself which sits directly east of brookfield square mall. you can see they have plenty of emergency equipment here. dozens of ambulance, hand full of fire trucks, as well as the flight for life helicopter to take the most critical out in the fastest matter. as you can see the flight for life is shut down. they have no passengers to take at this point. i did see when we were looking across the way they have tactical officers fully geared up and they had guns drawn and in defensive position. staying safely in cover at this point. we never show those positions if we can help it from the helicopter or anywhere else because we don't want to give
away any tactical positions during a live scene. i will widen out more so we don't give away any position and show you the spa itself is in the center of the frame here. it is surrounded by officers. they have the roadway shut down. moreland from i-94, the entrance to the mall, just north of i-94 up to blue monday roaded is where the closure is at this point. we see some delays as well and i guess you have more information so i will toss it back to you. >> thank you. we will go to abe who has new information for us. >> right now, as the tactical situation is unfolding at the actual location are in the parking lot. i can tell you what it is like here. the parking lot of the mall, the mall itself is locked down. the parking lot is where a number of people who were in the mall are leaving right now. we see, of course, a lot of people given it is a sunday are here with their kids. remarkably everyone has remained calm as we have watched people.
they seem to be in control as they leave here with their kids trying not to alarm anyone right now. total numbers a this point, how many people may have been shot inside the spa across the street from the mall here, that, at this point, is not known. there are some sources that are telling us it may have been approximately seven people. we do know from the hospital that four people were treated what we are told are noncritical injuries and three others are on the way there. whether there are additional victims beyond the four and three remain to be seen. but we know four were taken and treated for non-critical injuries and three on the way. there is, in this parking lot, quite a large presence of emergency vehicles. right now in the parking lot here and communication with our producer at this moment. if our producer could repeat the information to me once more, that would be helpful to me, as well. we will continue to provide information on what is taking
place it sounds like here in this parking lot where vehicles, emergency vehicles, ambulances from -- i'm pausing to listen to an announcement that police are making. emergency vehicles from all over the area have come here and the emergency announcement asking people who are in the parking lot to clear out. presumably that is because they have been using this as a staging area. one of the things we observed earlier is that crews had to navigate in this breaking news situation around the other vehicles that were in this parking lot. it is a busy sunday. crews are descending here in response to a shooting. they had to weave in and out of the people who were here shopping. who in many cases had no idea what was going on. let's look so you have a sense of what i mean when i describe the number vehicles in this vicinity who had to make their way through the traffic, make their way through this parking lot to get in here to see what was taking place. police have roped off the area. they are trying, as you see with
the tape there and with the people leaving this area to make this an area where they can do what they call staging essentially where they can set up and strategize and determine what they are going to do and how they are going to respond. as we have observed throughout the time here and for those just tuning in, the emergency vehicle and medical personnel are clustered in one area. police are clustered in another. that's the tactical element. the tactical element is taking place across the street. we are not showing it to you right now because it is the policy here at wisn not to broadcast live images of a tactical situation. we never want to compromise the work of law enforcement officers. in response to the shooting there is a large presence as you are looking at from all over the area of balancambulances ready e the victims from the scene. let's recap what we have been told by the witnesses who we have been talking to. we will emphasize so far we have
not heard from law enforcement on any sort of confirmation of the number of people who may have been shot out here or the circumstances that led up to this. what we are relying on at this point is what we are hearing from the witnesses that came out in the moments after the shooting. we're told there was a young woman who left the spa area frantic. she was screaming. she was describing there was a shooting taking place inside or near the spa. and according to one witness, this young woman said her mother had been shot. she was looking for help. there were people, we're told in the area who helped her go the the store and called 911 and got authorities to the area. additionally we are told two people, at least, who came out with gunshot wounds. one of woman we're told crawled out in the words of a witness here and was quickly swept up by emergency responders, taken and put in to an ambulance and another we're told was put in the back of a squad car where emergencymen medical personnel began to work on her right away.
we're told both were female. that's what a witness is describing. we have terry satyr with us helping to contribute to this coverage. i want to toss things over to him. terry? >> i know it is important for people to know they need to stay away from the brookfield swear area right now. as i drove past on 94, i could see that police had blocked off northbound morland where you would turn in the to the mall there. looked as if they were turning people around. we are waiting for confirmation from authorities. they are scrambling for this. you can see the massive number of emergency vehicles on the scene from news chopper 12. it looked one of the command vehicles, it looked like the county's mass command vehicle was entering the scene from the south side heading north and trying to set up a command, as obviously anytime they activate that unit it means they are looking at being some place for a long time, trying to
coordinate the activities of multiple police and emergency response agencies. and again, right now, it appears, our early information is there has been a shooting at the azana spa, right there across from brookfield square. apparently seven people wounded, four being treated for non-life-threatening injuries. three on the way to the hospital. flight for life is on the ground preparing to take any patients that might need to get to a hospital or a trauma one center more quickly. it's not clear, right now. because we are trying to contact authorities. all of the details, as you heard abe talk about right there. do we have someone live in news chopper 12, as well, that can tell us what they are seeing right now? >> hey, terry. it's matt. i'm in the chopper and we have been watching the last half hour, 45 minutes and we have seen numerous balances come from the scene. they have repositioned themselves now.
opposed to being in parking spaces they are lined up and ready to go in case they need to take more injured parties away. flight for life is parked and on standby. they have turned the blades off and waiting to see if they are needed to remove anymore injured. you were talking about moreland road shut down north of the freeway and i can show you it is shut down. they are not turning people directly around but send ing them around on the mall drive that goes west -- actually now they are turning them around. they are turning back south. they should probably over the next step once they get the traffic clear will probably shut it down at the freeway ramps and start to send traffic south on to moreland. moreland is shutdown between blue mound and the south bun dri of the mall. the spa is in the center of the frame. we never zoom in tight because what abe was talking we were on a different shot i had a chance
to look in and they have tactical officers fully dressed with their guns drawn. they are taking tactical positions around them spa to ge scene to make sure everything is secure. but they have not been able to do that so far. from what abe has been telling us, we have heard that there are seven people they are treating at this point, four of them already there and three that are on the way to the scene. and as you can see, we zoom back into the parking lot as folks begin to prepare for the mall put on lockdown. folks are leaving in an orderly fashion at this time and we're still waiting for confirmation from the exact number from authorities, and when they get the building across the street cleared at the spa where this shooting has taken place. ambulances still on the scene. they have not taken any passengers at this point and we'll continue to monitor the situation and let you know if we see any changes. terry? >> i guess one good bit of information here is they are close to probably the largest
and best equipped trauma 1 center here, and of course we're talking about crater hospital very close to where all this happened. right now, again, we've been having abe update us from the scene, and abe, you've been live there all this morning, and what can you tell us about this as we now head into the early afternoon here? >> as we head into the early afternoon hours, this all unfolded shortly after 11:00, maybe 11:15 here. that's when witnesses told us they first saw a young woman run out of the azana spa across the street, barefoot, they told us, screaming that someone was shooting inside. so you have a situation where there is a shooting, but it sounds like at this point seven people shot across the street from the mall on a sunday. that creates a situation for the mall to deal with as well, especially given that there was a tactical situation and still right now it's unclear what the status of the shooter is.
let's show you what it looks like in the mall parking lot right now. as we mentioned to you numerous times, there are emergency vehicles staging, but there is also a cluster of people gathered. they are in some degree journalists, but in other cases people who are here who have been here over the course of really the last hour waiting to see what might unfold. a number of these people were the first on the scene. in fact, one of the gentlemen who was first out here who described to me what he saw, who described to me the young woman who ran across the street was after we finished speaking, saying that he really didn't feel at this point like he wanted to leave because he felt like he wanted to -- now that he was involved in this, even though it was the last thing in the world he expected to be v d involved with on his sunday morning, felt like he wanted to see what came of it and certainly see what happened with the young woman who, as his description was, had not been shot but was quite frantically
describing a shooting that was inside that mall. we heard an announcement live about 10 minutes ago, 15 minutes ago, they are in the process of clearing out this parking lot. they are using this as a staging area and doing whatever they can to try to get as many people as possible into safety. so they're in the process of doing two things here, trying to eliminate people who might potentially get in their way as they bring emergency vehicles in and out, but also eliminate people who could potentially be -- >> this is barton savage in the center in alabama. you are getting reports out of brookfield, to be exact, where there was a shooting at a day spa. there are seven charactasualtieg treated at a nearby hospital. unknown if there are other casualties. we also have police and fire and medical emergency teams on the scene. this is actually taking place across the street from the very busy brookfield square mall.
it began around 11:00 local time, a little afternoon eastern time. authorities are still gathering on the scene. you can see the large collection there of fire, ambulance and we also know that the roads have been blocked off in the area and there is a swat team presence seen moving in on the spa itself at one particular time, and it was pretty clear they had a serious intent as they made their move. we don't know the whereabouts of a shooter if that's what we're dealing with here. it does appear, though, that the suspect or suspects are still on the loose just by measuring the posture of authorities. but again, we have a number of people who have been apparently shot, and this is taking place near a mall in suburban milwaukee at a spa, and the story is continuing to develop. we'll take a break and be back with more after this. where are we going?
hello, i'm martin savage in the cnn newsroom in at lant a. we continue to follow developments coming out of milwaukee, reports of suburban milwaukee, brookfield to be specific, where there has been a shooting at the azana spa. that would be a day spa across the street from the brookfield mall. there has been a very heavy presence of emergency and fire personnel. this began a little after 11:00 local time. we're told the shooter, the suspect, is still on the loose. the number of people, we know that one hospital in the milwaukee area has received four people being treated for non-threatening injuries. there are three more supposedly on the way, so a total of seven people injured in some way. we don't know how, the hospital wouldn't confirm. mike brooks, the cnn legal analyst who is also well connected in the police community, joins us now on the telephone. mike, what are you learning? >> marty, i'm hearing from my
sources close to the investigation there in wisconsin in waukesha county, they have transported seven people to the hospital. we don't know the condition. we don't know if they are life heig life-threatening injuries. they still have not secured the scene. they're still searching for the subject. they believe they know who the subject is, and they think he possibly may have fled the scene. but they do know who this person is and they do know what town he lives in not too far from where the shooting took place, marty. but we don't know if they have him in custody, we don't believe he is in custody right now, as i said, and the swat teams are there still clearing now. this is an equivalent of a third alarm, if you will, for emergency medical service response. a third alarm ems, which brings a number of emergency and medical resources to the scene, and as we said, seven people so far have been transported but still do not know how serious the injuries ar